UWAGA!!! Wg wywiadu z ukraińską archeolog, słyszalnego na jednym z filmów zamieszczonych poniżej datowanie radiowęglowe wskazuje nawet na wiek pierwszej swastyki, swargi, kołowrotu na 15,000 lat!!!
Jeśli ktoś myśli, że odpuściłem łowcom ruskich trolli i innym podobnym ich brednie o „południowej drodze R1a”, no to pomyłka! Tymczasem gińcie ze strachu kluseczki, bo wkrótce powracam do kopania zwolenników „południowej drogi R1a”, bohatersko w ciszy leżących i krwawiących ze wszystkich otworów, także i tych dokonanych moim dowodzeniem… 🙂
A oto poniżej wpis, który już jest tylko kolejnym dobijaniem konającego Hindusa z hindutva, no ale można w komentarzach do niego znaleźć przykłady na myślenie podobne do mojego, o pochodzeniu tzw. PIE = Pra+Słowian od łowców mamutów ze stepu, jak ci z Mezine… z bagien Prypeci…
History of the Swastika – Mezine Old Europe Vinca Cucuteni Trypillian Greece Rome Celtic Germanic
Published on May 3, 2015
The earliest swastika ever found was uncovered in Mezine, Ukraine. It is carved on late paleolithic figurine of mammoth ivory, being dated as early as about 10,000 BC. Among the earliest cultures utilizing swastika is the Old Europe, neolithic Danube Valley Civilization, Vinca, Cucuteni-Trypillian
In Bronze Age Europe, the „Sun cross” appears most frequently of all continents, often interpreted as a solar symbol. Swastika shapes have been found on numerous artifacts from Iron Age Europe (Greco-Roman, Illyrian, Etruscan, Baltic, Celtic, Germanic, Slavic and Georgian Borjgali).This prehistoric use seems to be reflected in the appearance of the symbol in various folk cultures of Europe. The symbol has been found on vessels in the ancient city of Troy, The evidence shows that it served as a symbol of fertility and life. Its similar use can be found in Trench Graves in Mycanae, Greece, on Athenian vases and even decorating the garments of Aphrodite, the Greek goddess of love. Also the Greek Parthenon had this symbol as a Greek design just like other designs.
Swastika is a definite European sign moving east into Indus Valley Civilization. It was brought by migrating tribes to India where it is revered in the religious and cultural life of the Indo-Aryans. It did not originate in the Indus Valley Civilization as some people thought.
Distribution of mobile art in Eastern Europe.
1 Staryé Duruitory, 2 Brynzeny, 3 Kosseoutzy, 4 Klimaoutzy, 5 Suren’ 1, 6 Chan-Koba, 7 Apiantcha, 8 grotte d’Uvarov, 9 Sakagia, 10 Sagvardgilé, 11 Gvardgilas-Kldé, 12 Devis-Khvreli, 13 Taro-Kldé, 14 Molodova V, 15 Lissitchniki, 16 Lipa VI, 17 Klinetz, 18 Ossokorovka, 19 Dubovaya Balka, 20 Kaïstrovaya Balka, 21 Mejiritch (Mezhirich), 22 Kievo-Kirillovskaya, 23 Mézine (Mezin), 24 Novgorod Severskyi, 25 Puchkari I, 26 Dobranitchevka, 27 Gontzy, 28, Rogalik, 29 Amvrossievka, 30 Eliseevitchi I, 31 Eliseevitchi II, 32 Yudinovo, 33 Khoylevo II, 34 Timonovka, 35 Suponevo, 36 Avdeevo, 37 Sungir’, 38 Gagarino, 39 Kostienki 19, 40 Kostienki 21, 41 Kostienki 13, 42 Kostienki 1, 43 Kostienki 14, 44 Kostienki 12, 45 Kostienki 17, 46 Kostienki 2, 47 Kostienki 11, 48 Kostienki 4, 49 Kostienki 15, 50 Kostienki 9, 51 Kostienki 8, 52 Borchtchevo 1, 53 Borchtchevo 2, 54 Ilskaya, 55 Murakovka, 56 Ostrovskaya, 57 Bez’imyannyi, 58 Smelobskaya, 59 Kapova, 60 Ignatievskaya.
Photo: Abramova (1995)
Mezine is a place within the modern country of Ukraine which has the most artifact finds of Paleolithic culture origin. The epigravettian  site is located on a bank of the Desna river. The settlement is best known for an archaeological find of a set of bracelets engraved with marks possibly representing calendar lunar-cycles. Also found near Mezine was the earliest known example of a swastika-like form, as part of a decorative object dated to 10,000 BCE. It was described (see references for illustrations) as an object carved from ivory mammoth tusks to resemble  an:
|“||Ice age Bird … with Inscribed Swastikas… ||”|
Tuesday, July 4, 2017
Out-of-India chickens coming home to roost
Razib has posted a spacious but none-too-technical review of the ongoing Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT) controversy, along with some personal anecdotes and predictions about how ancient DNA from South Asia might shape the debate in the near future (see here).
It should be a useful guide to the topic for those of you who aren’t quite as excited about reading about my latest adventures with qpGraph as many of the regulars in the comments here.
One thing that I’d perhaps add to Razib’s post is that the ancient DNA record now boasts Late Neolithic Yamnaya-like Corded Ware Culture individuals from the East Baltic region that belong to Y-haplogroup R1a-Z645. And that’s usually as far as their lineages go (see here).
This is important, because the Z645 mutation is directly and recently ancestral to the pair of likely post-Neolithic mutations that define the two R1a subclades most common in Europe and South Asia today: Z282 and Z93, respectively.
So not only are the „European” R1a-Z282 and „South Asian” R1a-Z93 relatively young sister clades, but their ancestral clade has now been found in ancient samples from Northeastern Europe that probably predate their appearance by only a few generations, if that. Of course, the upshot of all of this is that R1a-Z93 could not have originated very far from the East Baltic, which makes South Asia look about as likely as the homeland of this subclade as the goddamn moon. Conversely, it makes AIT look very plausible indeed.
However, granted, this might seem very confusing to anyone who hasn’t been studying the R1a topology for years, and perhaps better left out of the more mainstream debates on AIT for the sake of simplicity. By the way, I found this part of Razib’s post especially intriguing:
One scientist who holds to the position that most South Asian ancestry dates to the Pleistocene argued to me that we don’t know if ancient Indian samples from the northwest won’t share even more ancestry than the Iranian Neolithic and Pontic steppe samples. In other words, ANI was part of some genetic continuum that extended to the west and north. This is possible, but I do not find it plausible.
I suspect that this scientist’s rather fanciful suggestion (which really flies in the face of very solid models based on ancient genomic data from Europe and surrounds) is a hint of the direction that the debate will take right after the publication of ancient genomes from South Asia. Because when that happens, obfuscators like this guy (usually hopeless Out-of-India proponents) will either have to concede defeat and quit the debate, or ramp up their obfuscations to spectacular new highs.
And please don’t mistake my confidence on this issue for bluff and bluster. It’s not exactly the best kept secret out there that ancient samples from India and Pakistan are now ready, and…oops I probably can’t say more than that for now. Pity.
Posted by Davidski at 8:39:00 PM 132 comments:
Davidski, „And metallurgy is not a Proto-Indo-European thing. It was introduced into Indo-European societies by foreigners.”
There’s ample indications of a relationship between the origin of the (pre-neolithic) ceramcis of northern Eurasia and the metalurgy of northern Eurasia.
Furthermore, the later evolution of pottery and metallurgy – both – have obvious relations with the spread anevolution of agriculture.
Finally we may see that the evolution of all three fields of competence and capabilities are related to the mesolithic routes of travel and trade – basically following the waterways along coasts and major rivers.
During the last two decades there’s been several discoveries of major networks – of civil travel and organized trade – across most of Europe and northern Asia already during late-mesolithic Europe. That includes the Atlantic facade and the Mediterranean waters in the west, as well as the Baltic, the Black and the Caspian Seas in central Eurasia. The latter connected via the first, organized river-trade, no later than 8.000 BP.
As the traces of a „basal Eurasian” trading-culture goes back to the mesolithic time, there’s no more room for a „unknown, nostratic origin” of the I-E expressions, as recognized in languages, forms and formats, symbols and structures.
Today we may even link the forms and formats of late-Paleolithic symbolism and the well-known world of the Corded, Combed and Pit-Wares. Today we may even follow a tradition of decorative symbolism from the very late-Paleolithic Mezin – via the pottery of the North Eurasia’s Neolithic, as well as the art of Eurasia’s Bronze Age and Iron Age…
Per consequence there’s no factual reasons left to claim that metalurgy – as little as pottery and agriculture – was explored and developed into (common) craftmanship – in isolation from the Indo-European culture. Unless you’re in need to claim that the cultural expressions of the first I-E speakers originated south of the 40th paralell…
July 7, 2017 at 6:24 AM
@Davidski „And metallurgy is not a Proto-Indo-European thing. It was introduced into Indo-European societies by foreigners.”
How did you reach this conclusion? Proto-Indo-Europeans held metal work in high regards, and all of the known IE people had a smith god or a smith hero, Hittites included.
July 7, 2017 at 10:41 AM
@Vara Proto-Indo-European has very limited vocab related to metallurgy. This doesn’t look good for the idea that is commonly argued in the comments here that the Proto-Indo-European culture was spread on the back of metallurgy.
More on the topic of metal and Indo-Europeans at the Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture.
July 7, 2017 at 4:52 PM